Worldwide Church of God: Page Seven, Mail to John O.

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Enlyten2001@Yahoo.com

Dear John, I have just read the article you posted on the Painful Truth website 'Criminals'.

I found it very interesting. I have read Herbert W. Armstrong's autobiography and wondered how he paid the wages of the 8 teachers that began teaching the 4 students at Pasadena. I did not give it a lot of thought. Logically you might think he was making enough money from the tithes he was receiving, but to purchase land and buildings and supply teachers as well, we are looking at big bucks. I believe you are right about backing and organization. Could Herbert W. Armstrong have had anything to do with the mob?

I am Scully from the forum, if you want to a little about me you can look in the introductory notes. I will read yours when I get a chance. I gather you were a minister for the Worldwide Church of God. What happened? You must of been doing well financially at the time. Was the church split anything to do with it?

And thanx 4 your letter and the good word. Yes, I do feel that Herbie was involved with someone (big bucks) here. That goes for most religious organizations. They ALL have big backers. All those backers, from what I can detect, are tied into some form of organized crime - whether it be the mob, the Saudi connections, the drug cartels, or the Jewish mafia. Clinton, for example, has often been linked to the drug cartels, but nothing's been completely proven.

I haven't put anything into the Introductory notes on the forum, but the best place you can go and read what happed is go to the PT Site. Scroll down to the block that says "Articles by JohnO," and again, scroll down to the bottom and read the very first article called: "The Plain Truth about Hawaii." It might give you a chuckle. I wasn't always a minister (thank God), but spent most of my life as an electronic engineer in various capacities.

Since I was in mid/upper management in a few companies, I was fully aware of the rotten tactics that people can use. When Worldwide Church of God tried these same tactics on me, I set them up and let them take the fall.

Hi again John, I have just read the above article and I found it very interesting. What courageous people they were in the congregation. I am in the *** and I attended both the congregations here. Apart from a short 'sermonette' from the deacon we did not even have a minister to speak to us, but a tape recording of Flurry, Stephen Flurry or one of the others to listen to for 2 and half hours, so nobody could question them if we wanted to. (you gather I was with the PCG) I could not imagine anybody in either of the congregations that would dare to question any of the nonsense. They were completely 'yes men', everyone of them. There was nothing but praise and worship for Herbert W. Armstrong. These were not real people, they were all mind-controlled zombies as far as I could see. Nobody had the balls to question. Me included.

I left after attending a FOT about 2 years ago, on the last Sabbath we sat down in the big hall for a nice dinner served buffet style. When I saw how hard the catering staff were working, with sweat dripping off them it struck me that it was a Sabbath and they should not be doing all this hard work. The church was paying these hard working people to put on this meal for us, I thought this was very hypocritical, we could of made it easy for them, they could of laid on a cold spread, maybe bread, cold meat, cheese, salad etc. In effect we were encouraging them to sin. Ok, they weren't church members, but I saw it as church members paying others to sin. I was sitting on the same table as the regional director and I was tempted to question him about it, but I thought it wasn't the right time and I did not really have the courage.

There were many things I could of questioned and not had a sensible answer for. I did raise the question about Herbert W. Armstrong's incest with his daughter, I was told to concentrate on Herbert W. Armstrong's work and not believe all there was on the internet. Thank ??? for the internet.

Thanx again for the letter. It sure seems that PCG is becoming another Worldwide Church of God, and that Flurry is evolving into another dead Herbie. But far too many people are sheep and do NOT want to think for themselves. They want to simply give their money and loyalty to some hypocrite who is always anxious to fleece the flock and use it up with a sumptuous living style.

The remark that you "shouldn't believe all you read on the Internet," sounds like a shot at the Ambassador Reports and the PT Site. However, that's not the only source of Herbie's and Teddy's perversions. There's a long history involved here. Dave Robinson's "Tangled Web" is a documentary of religion at its worst. Get rid of all religions and BS artists who make money from their propaganda and drivel. But, like PCG, far too many want to be zombies, and they become "yes men & women."

I'm still writing for the PT Site (about 97 articles now) and they're all found in the section "Articles by JohnO."

May I send excerpts of our correspondence to the Editor? I'll keep your real name private and use the name "Scully." It might be enlightening to some to see more antics of the illustrious PCG.

Hi John, thank you for your reply. I feel like a cheat really, I was never a baptized member of the PCG or any church.

The PCG was the nearest I ever got to being a proper member of any religious organization, although I have dabbled with the JW's and the Methodists. I always put my toe in the water but when it looks like it could be getting serious, I pull out. Not with all things, just religion. The PCG was expecting far too much from me and I was not going to give it. I would not like to lay claim to it, but I must be one of the few people to have fleeced the PCG. I was not paying any tithes because I had hardly any money of my own and I was not a member, although I did throw them a few crumbs now and then. The church paid for me and my son to stay in a nice hotel for the FOT we went to. It was an expensive hotel but it personally cost me very little.

I said I feel like a cheat because the church did not cause me or my family a lot of grief, unlike a lot of the people on the forum. I did not let it. I have learned more about the real Worldwide Church of God from the PT website and the forum than I ever did with the church and I am constantly amazed with what they got away with and the abuse of decent people. It makes me angry if I think about it too much.

I'll give you something else you might find interesting. In the congregation there was an elderly lady who had walking difficulties, and no transport and probably not too well off either. She was a very gracious lady, loving and caring and deeply serious about her membership of the PCG. I will call her Mrs. Smith.

When going to the FOT, my husband drove me and my son to Mrs. Smith's house where we were taken to the feast by another member of the church, about 2 and half hours drive. My husband made it clear, when he came to take us home from the feast, he did not want to take passengers, he had nothing to do with the church. However Mrs. Smith believed she was going to be taken home by my husband and was very disappointed when I told her she couldn't come with us, we had made other plans. At first the regional director told her he would take her home and later he became non committal and Mrs. Smith believed she was going to be stranded at the hotel after the feast. She became increasingly worried and hysterical throughout the time we were there. At the end of the feast Mrs. Smith was very upset. When I tried to comfort her in the presence of a deacon and another member, they said nothing and just looked at me. There was nothing I could do, but to tell Mrs. Smith that I would take her home. It ruined our plans but Mrs. Smith was very distressed and I could not leave her.

I had to leave the hotel that day but Mrs. Smith had paid for another night, but she was so relieved to have somebody take her home she got ready immediately.

My husband was very angry about being used by the church, it seemed that Mrs. Smith believed from the start that we would take her home. Somebody must have told her we would. My husband sent a very angry letter to the regional director, complaining about the way he had been used by the rotten church and the way Mrs. Smith had been treated. The next day I had Mrs. Smith on the phone, very upset, because the RD had sent her a letter telling her off for putting the church in a bad light and setting a bad example. Mrs. Smith had been a long standing member of the Worldwide Church of God and then the PCG, I think she deserved better for her loyalty.

I am sorry, but I am going to impose on you. It should not hurt, I just need information. Please. I was never a member of the wcg but I was a *co-worker* with the pcg. They asked me to leave when I (honestly) admitted I smoke. I have issues with that, hell of a way to help someone! But that is not why I am bothering you. It's background that will probably annoy you but I feel is important for some reason. Anyhow, I have had issues with the pcg and a couple of the teachings of hwa but I decided to table them for the time being. We were taught that hwa was Elijah (go figure) and that the wcg was bad and had/were corrupting everything. Now I am learning that I’ve been fed a lot of hooey about the late great hwa. If I find a second witness to what he allegedly did with his daughter my mind will definitely be made up! However, if hwa was as bad (or even 10%) as this site claims and was a plagiaristic liar, what of the bible? I don't think I am a complete idiot. I did my homework and took seriously God's instruction to prove all things! Why else would I be reading this site? (I was doing a search for sendmail, e-mail serving software, and this popped up, go figure) how do I reconcile the bs fed through the pcg and what I perceive to be truth? For instance: do you eat pork? Work Saturday? Et al. If so, why/how? (I am NOT attacking you even if you do, I am trying to get understanding. I also realize it's none of my business.) I read one of your letters about the end of the Hawaii cog and applaud your methods! That's why I am harassing you now: your people refuted the ministry with scripture, you did not just throw up your hands in disgust and walk away! How does that affect the bible? Keep in mind, I have no doubt in God, with or without the bible. I am not crushed by all of this. I may even be relived! But.... I know I was not around for decades of hwa saying Deutschland uber alles ANY MINUTE, however, Europe IS considering sending their own peacekeepers into Israel just as hwa/pcg have said and as I have been *shown* in my bible. I am thoroughly confused and would appreciate some dialogue from you! Either to set my brain straight or to confirm my faith. I have been literally begging my friends for years to prove me crazy (led) and would appreciate it if you could!

Thanks for your letter. First, I'm glad you're not in any of the WCG offspring cults. They can destroy your life, and in being "out," you've started on the road to proper thinking.

Second, is the problem with the Bible. It is NOT the word of God, but the work of men - probably from priests in the Old Testament, and the Catholic Church in the new. It's a book loaded with allegories, myths, superstitions, and outright lies. This is NOT to say that people cannot derive some good principles in its pages, but many books over the millennia have done the same thing, and they've done it better. If I were you, I'd forget the Bible and go onto following the aspects of kindness and love to your fellow man.

The PCG sounds like a mirror image of the WCG, and with some reports we've gotten, it sounds worse. It's legalism all the way. One famous author once said: "He who is best governed is least governed." But the Bible will smother you with laws.

Please continue to read the many articles on the PT Site, as they present many different points of view, and they WILL make you think. It's going to be up to you eventually as to which direction in life you take. Also, you could take advantage of the FORUM, and discuss things with others who have followed the same road.

You're in a questioning stage now, Greg. So make the most of it, and PROVE everything, and then, build on that. Best of luck, and please, stay completely away from cults.

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The content of this site, including but not limited to the text and images herein and their arrangement, are copyright © 1997-2002 by The Painful Truth. All rights reserved.