Worldwide Church of God: Email: Sweet and Sour, Page Fourteen

Ed, Include my name on the list of those who are disfellowshipping the ministry. My family and I fell away quietly in 1993 so we missed the pomp and circumstance of being formally disfellowshipped although it had the same effect.

Also put down Gerald Weston who is now with the Meredith group as one to disfellowship. He was a wicked, evil minister with a liking for young Y.O.U. girls. Don't know that he ever did anything improper but he sure paid a lot of undue attention to them. He did everything he could do make the boys their age look like fools. I have talked to several who know him or were in his congregation and they have voiced the same observation. Anyway he deserves a spot on the list. Also Frank McCrady senior although he may be dead or retired by now. I grew up under his sick rein. I believe he taught Gerald all he knows. That's okay Meredith will fill in any blanks Frankie left.

Here's my list of ministers that should be disfellowshipped (and my opinions why):

Ken Giese: the world's biggest asshole. A very prideful racist. A cold fish of a human being. Played games with people's baptism. Have people show up for baptism, then not do it. Scared everybody to death. The Blacks in our sister church Norfolk complained about his ass, so HQ brought in a Black minister to pastor that church. To protect himself in Richmond ( or at HQ's bidding)he raised a Black to local elder. A true racist and a true asshole.

Robert "Bob" Jones: Famous for putting people to sleep. Always said, "God either is or he ain't." Guess what, Bob, he ain't. Probably a former Klansman.

Val Burgett: Zero social skills, zero personality. Had trouble dealing with black people. And he used to live in Africa. Guess he lived in the white only section. Spoke in a deep phony voice. Had the sound men turn up the gain so he could put the fear of god into you. Not very bright.

Ron Smith: A buffoon. Had a tendency to use salty language during sermons. Gave sermons not from the bible but from a book called "The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People." Maybe he did us all a favor. The class clown in the XCGs.

Fred Bailey: Famous for saying, " Those other ministers did those rotten things but I never did." Yeah, sure, Fred. I didn't hear from that bastard when I left until HQ made their ministers contact the "lost sheep."

Not one member contacted me after I left. And after 14 years of being there. What a waste of #@$%ing Time!

You were such a sweetheart. I would like to apologize to you for being one of those people who never contacted you after you left. Why did we behave that way? Looking back, it seems insane. So many friends deserted because we were narrow minded, self-centered, stupid. I hope you can forgive me.

Dear Ed, Perhaps you should have an apology list for those of us who perpetuated the abuses of the church by silent and verbal consent through our own selfish desire for prestige and power. I would like to sign up.

You know how hard it was to get people to sign up for anything at church........

How about a list to sign to apologize to all those who were disfellowshipped or who left because they got their brains back sooner than we did, and we never called or contacted them?

Or maybe it could be a general apology page where a person can just say that they want to apologize for thus and such and then sign it?

If you or anyone else has any ideas on how to phrase this, or if you have apologies I will post them.

I attended church for 5 years, even went to Big Sandy One Year -1976. They decided to close the school and move to Pasadena, I SAID, NO , and went to the university of Alabama.

One Saturday I went to a Alabama Florida football game. I began the process of leaving the church, you would think some of my Christian brothers would have called. After the Alabama Tennessee game of 1979, I never went back.

The Birmingham Al church was the rudest and meanest bunch of people I've ever met.

Big Sandy was a joke because R. Kelly was in charge. I met or had my first girlfriend at Big Sandy, but she quit seeing me because I questioned HWA and GTA. Anyway she was a deacons daughter from Australia, and her Dad wrote and told her not to see me anymore. Guess what? She didn't. She started dating some future minister and I decided that Life is to short to hang around these idiots that blindly follow fools.

First, let me suggest that you add the book "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer to your read list. It was written in the 1950's and it outlines the similarities between all mass movements and their adherents. When I read it I was stunned and embarrassed to see my church , its leaders and members so precisely described.

Secondly, instead of an apology page, why not just have a message board ? People could use their real names or not. I realize that this may be more work than you have time or inclination to do.

What a coincidence! I was reading "The True Believer" just last night. Went on the internet and got a bunch of quotes of Hoffer's which I will be making into a page. Also got an image from Amazon so as to put a clickthrough on the page to order the book.

If you, or anyone else, would like to do a book review of the book, send it along. Outtakes, whatever? I don't have time myself but I could see so many things in there that fit the cult. The usage of psychology is incredible. And they told us not to read those psychology books..... Duh.

Regarding the message board: it is too much work. There are email lists out there such as Ekklesia and there are newsgroups that fulfill this need. (Lots of nuts hang out on the Newsgroups and they are unmonitored) I spent 3 years on Ekklesia and it was helpful to me but there are too many messages and too much time spent taking part in these things for me to do it anymore.

I happened upon your web site "The Painful Truth" and have a question. With all that is posted on this site, are you saying that you do not believe the "BASIC" doctrine of the Law (i.e. Sabbath keeping, clean and unclean foods, Ten Commandments ...basically, all old testament laws and statutes.)?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Read my FAQ page. I think I explain my beliefs pretty thoroughly there.

I was one who read and even began believing all the literature that HWA put out. I never actually "Joined" this foolishness however. I maintained my distance on the outside looking in. I even attended a few Sabbath services at various locations. I felt quite uncomfortable at them all right from the start. When the whole thing (WCG) started to really unravel I felt lost; a feeling of "no where to go". I floundered for several months, then discovered the real "truth" in the articles mentioned below.

I realize just how cynical you will be, but have a real honest look at the following site:

This man (Neville Stevens) was never a "follower" of HWA and the Worldwide Church of God, but of course you will see "vague" similarities in what he puts out, and that is all; just vague ones. He is, simply put, saying that there is truth in what HWA (worthless shepherd) put forth as truth and doctrine, but only a basic truth to what HWA said and "Taught". He very much realizes that HWA was a worthless shepherd, and that HWA embellished upon the truth to his own liking.

Put aside your bitterness over the HWA debacle for a time and just read the articles on this site thoroughly, and with an open mind. Don't be one of the "sheep" that HWA damaged to the point that you walk a completely different path with your "hooves torn off". HWA is the one (worthless shepherd) mentioned in Zech. 11:15-17.

Thank you for trying to help me get over my "bitterness" by finding a different brand of religion. Sorry, I can think for myself now and no longer need such foolishness.

Check out my Bibliolatry Page. Put aside your mindless pro-bible support without any proof at all and just read the articles on this site thoroughly, and with an open mind.

ALL these self-appointed representatives of God are the worthless shepherds as mentioned in Zech. 11:15-17. (I'll take your word for whatever quote that is)

I am looking for the Exit and Support Network. I cannot find it. Please, can you help me?

I have read the article by Ralph Woodrow, concerning the introduction of the Sunday worship from paganism. I cannot help, but I find a serious flaw in it.

Woodrow has asked, in fact, the wrong question. I am reading that the question was: Did the Sunday worship originate from Greek and/or Roman paganism? The answer is frankly no. However, Woodrow mentions, that its origin is in Mesopotamia, Egypt and Assyria. We also can think of the Persian Zoroaster cults , Attis etc. From there is the pagan origin of the Sunday cult.

So the Sunday worship originated not in Greece or Rome, but in the East. The Roman soldiers were all addicted to Attis, and had Sunday imported to the Greek and Latin countries. So the reasoning of Woodrow is not correct, to say the least.

I will forward your comments on the Sunday article to the person that submitted it. The subject doesn't interest me at all.

It appears as though Exit Support does not have a webpage any longer. Here is the information I was able to gather from an Internet search:

Exit support : Complete resource for individuals exiting from and researching the Worldwide Church of God. Information, support, and cult-education for questioners or members who have left that group and other bible-based organizations and for the general public.

My reaction to your website can best be summed up in one word: YEE-HAH! I have been free of the wcg for 16 years but have never been able to find a support network of ex-members. I don't have the time at this moment to send a detailed e-mail, but I wanted to express my support for you.

Please add my name to the list of those who disfellowship the vipers. The minister I would add to the Little Guys is already there.

If weekly Sunday worship originated with Attis worship, or in Egypt, etc. where is any evidence for this? Did the "East" mentioned have a calendar with Sunday as a national holiday which Christians copied? I just don't see any evidence for the statements made. Let me know if you have it figured out.

"Even as we are shocked by the events in Waco, let us be aware that the seeds of dependency are within each one of us. The tendency to look for security rather than take responsibility for our own lives is very strong. The only antidote to the cult mentality is for a person to stand alone and figure out what is true. As we look for help in making sense of our lives and world, we must learn to discriminate and see the motivation behind any political or religious leader. True leadership will not bind us; it will set us free." (author, Susan Munro)

As usual, your site is entertaining and enlightening. Just wanted to let you know that last weekend I finally rid myself of all the propaganda.

After spending 25 years in the cult, I had quite an impressive collection of books, booklets, WWNews, youth mags, etc. Growing up, we moved several times, and each time I dutifully packed it all up in a nice, sturdy box, and hauled it to the next place. After I left home, I continued to haul the box(es) around from place to place as I searched for my place in the world.

Well, my husband and I are getting ready to move into a brand new house in about a month, so we've been hauling out all our stored junk, sorting, and throwing away. He hauled out a box that I haven't seen for more than 5 years. It was THE BOX. I quit attending and gave up on Worldwide Church of God many years ago, but THE BOX was still sitting quietly in the crawl space. I didn't even know it was there.

I must say that I had a strong reaction to seeing all that again. I felt repulsed, sickened, as if it were evil somehow (I know that's a bit much, but I swear it's true!). I couldn't resist taking one last peek before I disposed of it all, heck, it'd been with me longer than most things in my life so far!

I picked up Herbie's autobiography (Part I) and opened it to read the blurb on the inside of the jacket. (I'm paraphrasing here.) It told of how for many years he didn't think it right for him to tell his story, and how for a while he didn't even allow photographs to be taken. But then it came to him that as people learned from Christ's life, they could learn from his. (A lot of paraphrasing here, but that was the gist of it.)

I can't tell you exactly what it said because it made me so angry and sick that I literally threw it across the basement into a huge box of trash! I really wanted to burn it all, but had no place to do it safely. So, it sat and I felt it there, from Sunday until Thursday morning when the garbage man came and took it away. I certainly felt better on Thursday, knowing it was GONE!

I just wanted to share my "story" with you. The whole thing kind of reminded me of all those sermons before Passover and unleavened bread...how sin sits and hides itself without us knowing it's there, etc., etc.

Keep up the great job on the site! (You can post my name and email if you want.)

We were also disappointed that we couldn't burn all that crap. Would have been so much more satisfying.

Then there is the danger that, if it is not burned, some other poor fool might pick it up and read it. And then also the embarrassment of thinking that the garbage man might see what we were throwing out and not take it because it was toxic waste. "I'm sorry sir but you need a special permit to dispose of materials that will rot people's brains."

Ed, please please please tell me that there really aren't people out there who actually still believe that stuff that I threw away!

And it is all legal because it is "religion." The perfect scam, if there is no God.

After scanning the list of names, there's one that I'd like to add. I sincerely believe that Ron Laughland (last Worldwide Church of God congregation that I'm aware of Hammond, Indiana) deserves to be added. Thanks,

Michelle Vice's article likening the wcg members to an abused wife started me thinking about something. Quite a number of years ago now, I was foolish enough to marry a man who was abusive. I contacted the local crisis center in the town where I lived, and the ladies there recommended a support group for survivors of domestic abuse.

The first time I walked into a meeting of this group, I was astounded to see three women from the local wcg. Two of them were girls I had grown up with when my mother was a member. (I had left the church before I married.) Their stories were sadly similar to the rest of us--lives of hopelessness and despair, fear for their safety and the safety of their children. I find it rather telling, thinking back on it now, that even after I had come to the conclusion that the wcg was rotten to the core, I was still surprised to find out that domestic abuse was happening in the wcg. We were conditioned so well that the thought of there being any dysfunctional families in "God's church" came as a complete surprise even several years after I went over the wall.

I don't know why this should be--one of the major reasons I left the group was the blatant sexism and lack of respect for women. The mothers of small children had their own kind of hell in the wcg, but I saw it from the perspective of a child and then a young, single woman. I can remember many incidents which caused me to hang my head in shame, when I should have decked somebody. There was the time when I was standing at a dance desperately wishing someone would ask me to dance. A smiling young man came up to me, and I thought "Oh, good.." until he spoke. He asked me to hold his drink while he danced with a friend of mine.

On another occasion, I was talking with a single man at the feast of tabernacles who turned out to be a deacon in a Colorado church area. He seemed very nice, and I was thinking to myself, "Gee, this guy's kind of attractive, maybe he'll ask me out". By the way, the dude was about 40, old enough to have better manners. At any rate, he started looking over my shoulder as we were talking , and I soon realized that he was checking for more attractive women he could chase. This loser actually started asking me about some of the gals walking by, asking questions like,"Do you know her? Is she single? Is she baptized?" etc. I'm surprised that he didn't ask if the ladies in question had all their teeth or were good breeding stock!

Shakespeare had it absolutely correct when he said that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The church rules gave all the autonomy in marriages to the husband. Women were taught that they should obey orders willingly with a "Yes, sir!" Their husbands had the right to tell them how to wear their hair, what clothes to wear, and even whether or not they could shave their legs! What other result is there going to be but abuse? The most compassionate of people would tend to become rather overbearing if their word was law within their group--that's simply human nature. If all humans didn't have this tendency, we wouldn't need checks and balances. The local ministers paid lip service to the idea that men should "love their wives as Christ loves the church" but the reality was completely different. The wcg was geared to men and their comfort and convenience, and women were relegated to the status of property. The blatant evil of this attitude still makes me so angry I could scream.

The wcg women who were in my domestic violence support group came under fire from their local minister for attending a group that could possibly "foster rebellion". They tried to explain to him that they only thing they were fostering was a desire to save their and their children's lives. He finally decided to "allow" them to continue attending. Wasn't that magnanimous of him? However, he just couldn't understand why the moderators wouldn't allow him to sit in on the meetings a few times to make sure that the women of his church weren't "male-bashing". Of course, the fact that his whole church was started by a child-abusing, raping, misogynistic swine and was perpetuating the abuse and suffering of thousands of women and children didn't strike him as being a problem.

It's funny--I can't recall how many times the local minister(or should I say fuhrer) came down on me for being too feministic or criticizing the men. But in all the years of sermons I listened to, I don't ever remember any of the men being told not to put down women. Nobody stepped in and defended the women and children. Not ever. I will never forget the image of the local fuhrer standing up on the dais one fine sabbath and giving a sermon on child-rearing. At one point, he reached behind the lectern and pulled out a paddle. Mind you, this thing wasn't a Ping-Pong paddle, by any means. It had been cut with a band-saw out of a half-inch slab of wood into the shape of a long paddle, perhaps 2 feet not counting the handle. It was approximately as thick as a kitchen cutting board. This, he informed us gleefully, was a ROD. This was what God was talking about in the book of Proverbs, not some puny little paddle but a real ROD. You could actually hear him speaking in capital letters. This was what God meant for decent parents to use on their children. And we all sat there nodding and thinking that he was right.

People can spout off all they want about how we ex-wcgers are "bitter", but I have ceased to give those kind of remarks any credence at all. I say anyone who does not stand up and decry the abuses perpetuated in the name of God is either a quivering coward or an accessory to that abuse. Somewhere, sometime, somehow, somebody has to be willing to step forward and shout, "Enough!" I say we all owe people like those who have raised their voices on this Website a debt of gratitude for having the strength to be willing to do just that. The next time some Herbert-quoting, bootlicking lackey of the REAL daughter of Babylon smugly calls me "bitter" I will tell him this: the greatest compliment I could ever possibly receive is the disapprobation of people like you. When I hear criticism like that from the "little Hitlers" of the world, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm doing something right.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. After I woke up to what had been done to us, all in the name of God, it just amazed me that the women could not see what had been done to them in particular. Of course, it all came right out of the Bible so maybe that makes it alright.

I was born in NY raised a Catholic. My father was abusive and this led to many things amongst them, no self confidence etc. After my father's death, I was suckered up into Herbert W. Armstrong's TV/radio programs and, being in a weak frame of mind, brainwashed by his doctrine. At the time I was receiving real help from a master teacher of karate, which I took up. I was so brainwashed by Armstrong that I abandoned karate and threw away all my karate promotion diploma's, uniforms and equipment.

I have over the years come back to the truth, the Catholic religion, despite all its faults

I realize where the truth is. I am so angry because I destroyed all my karate diploma's and etc. I have spent most of my adult life trying to pick this up. I have recently found an old karate student who let me color copy his diploma. The copy center manager helped me by typing my name into the copy I felt so good.

My mother, to make me feel good, gave me money to give to Armstrong's "church" I wish there was a way to get the $ 500 to $1000 back. It's been since the 1980's so I think it's too late. I thought maybe you can give some advice on this. Is there a way for me to get our money back?

I thank the real God for my mother, who has prayed for me to see the truth. I have since come back to the Catholic church. I know where the truth is and no one can ever again brainwash or sway me, ever! May Herbert W. Armstrong and his likes burn in hell forever!

I remember after I joined the military, in boot camp the chaplain knew of Herbert W. Armstrong. He said that HWA is a cult leader and is a liar, that whatever he says about the Catholic church is a lie. This with my military training helped me greatly overcome the damage which Armstrong had done. Interestingly the chaplain was not Catholic.

Keep up the Real Plain Truth by informing people of the truth about Armstrong and his organizations.

P.S. I remember when he croaked that national radio exposed him on the spot saying he had many wives where he claimed only one. Hearing this also gave me confidence. Let us destroy Armstrong and his likes forever. Please note that, for security reasons I do not want my name used in any way or released or given to 3rd parties.

Thanks for your message. Sorry to say that there is probably no way that you will ever get your money back. The bad guys win another one, or so it seems, if there is no God. Keep checking the PT periodically and, if I know of a class action lawsuit that you can jump on, I will certainly post it.

Don't ever think that you have all of the truth, especially in regards to religion. Keep looking and questioning everything.

I was reading the recent Whistler article which included many scripture references and was wondering if you now OK the use of numerous quotes from the bible to prove a point. I have some info that would help in a way that is similar to whistlers recent article.

I allowed Whistler to have the scriptures on that page since he was using them to prove that HWA was a fraud and a hypocrite even when judged by the book that he told us to believe and not believe him. That is the only point that the scriptures were being used to prove, as far as I remember. Also, I have to take into consideration that many of the visitors to the PT still believe that book and I think that Whistler did a good job of using the scriptures to show up herbie for the fraud that he was.

People who continue to grow have to go through different steps. The first one is to recognize how they were misled by someone using this book. (That is where Whistler's article comes in, for those that need it. And I also have some earlier articles that deal with Bible quotations but that is before I moved on to the second step.) The second step would be to see, after researching it with an open mind, that the book is not from God. I will not go into the reasons and the proof, there is plenty of that on my Bibliolatry Page.

If you want to submit your article, I will try to judge it in light of these things. I can tell you right now that it would have to do a better job of proving HWA wrong, in light of the Bible, than Whistler did otherwise there would be no point in having another article on the same subject.

I will not have any preaching or proselytizing on The PT. Please don't be offended if I do not publish it. It is nothing against you personally. I have proven the bible to be false, not of God, and I will not tolerate its use in most ways on my site. This book has been responsible for so much evil in the world that I do not have a lot of patience with those who parrot the words or those that blindly believe the parroting with no proof whatsoever. Been there, done that.

I have been cruising your site for a few hours now. I wish I could tell you my story, but I don't feel mentally up to going through it. (Translate I am afraid it might trigger a bipolar episode. I have had enough of them lately with my present life stress)

I "left the church" in 1986 when my mother found out I had lost my virginity, and promptly threw me out of the house at the ripe old age of 17.

I got diagnosed with Bipolar disorder in 1997, upon being hospitalised due to a severe psychotic breakdown. I was convinced that the voice in my mind was that what I had always feared was finally happening: I was becoming demon possessed.

It couldn't be God. God doesn't talk to people right? That manifestation of the Holy Spirit ended long ago. Besides, I was not attending church, was sexually active, and carried a gun everyday as a police officer. (which I still am!!)

I was reared my whole life being told in one way or another that "Satan was gonna get me." Forget the Lake of Fire, my fear was every night when the lights went out and darkness prevailed. Somehow, no amount of Psalm recitation brought the relief from fear. Probably because I knew I would never be good enough so God couldn't listen to me. And I wasn't baptized, or converted.

In 1997, some members of my Police Department, a new family God created for me (for many many reasons I believe that) took me to the hospital. It just so happened that day that there was a Sergeant on duty that I trusted enough to tell the truth about the voice I heard and my fears; it just so happened that this Sergeant was a psychology major going into counseling.

Had these circumstances not been there, I assure you, I would have committed suicide that same day. I was so terrified and in utter anguish that the God I knew would allow this possession. I knew that there was no way I would ever allow that to happen. That I would put my gun in my mouth and take my chances at the White Throne Judgment.

But the God of my childhood, the same God that loves me today, saw fit to intervene.

I send you this because I keep seeing mentions of bipolars all over the place. I read something that surmises that Mr. Armstrong was bipolar. I know how strong a trigger religion can be. Sadly, I can read my Bible infrequently and go to church even less. I am still torn between "the way of the church" which is a tortuous existence, and "going my own way" (mom's favorite phrase) which is undirected, convoluted and lonely as hell but most of the time, I can sleep at night without worrying about the demons.

I wanted to share this thing. I know what it is to be bipolar. I know the terrible truth of what a lifetime of doctrines of punishment and Satan, and of a childhood separate from other children, of always being the outcast and not fitting in, of being chastised because I didn't take joy in my being sanctified, and of growing up in a severely dysfunctional family which used "divine authority" as excuse and permission for the religious and psychological crimes committed against its children, of the church members glorified for the fact that they were "baptized members of God's Church" who sexually molested three little children who were my siblings. I know these terrible truths and they make me want to F**CKING PUKE.

And I know the truth of what happens when all this is embedded deep into the innocent subconscious of a child, who later grows up to develop bipolar disorder, experience the psychosis of a Bipolar I episode, which literally manifested itself in the violent and projectile vomiting of a mind too long saturated with the poisons of the doctrines and life of fear.

It isn't the church's fault that I am bipolar. It is genetic, brought on my any manner of things. I just find it interesting that there is a pattern here. I believe my Mother is Bipolar, although she would never accept that. As God's ordained baptized authority over her children, and as faithful keeper of "the Truth" she is much, much too narcissistic to recognize that much less admit it. But she will tell you she thinks my Grandfather was an untreated Bipolar. He was a church member too for a short time in the early 60's. He left because he wanted to be a minister (narcissists run rampant in my family) and they wouldn't make him one. 30 years later, after my grandfather's death and after 30 years of professing born-again Protestantism, my Grandmother returned. To GTA's church. She said she always knew the truth.

I guess some people just need to feel like they belong somewhere. I do too, but when you have this background and a mental illness on top of that, its kinda hard to see people accepting you.

I read the GYCG Website and some of the humor on yours. I am glad it is there, we need to laugh. If we couldn't laugh about this crap, the knowledge of these abuses would be slowly killing us from the inside out.

There is a lot more to my story. I have just never told it. Don't know if I want to. But I do know that I want the kind of relationship with God that every normal damn person in the world seems to get, which eludes me due to my past and my illness in the present. My bipolar mind does not like religion and especially doesn't like it when I try to "prove all things" or anything for that matter.

Oh hey, did I tell you about the UCG minister who came to visit me in the hospital, at my mom's request cause I asked for him? He told me not to touch him so that whatever was in me would not transfer itself to him. I have never seen so much fear in a person's face in my life. I wasn't very nice to him. I sent him away more afraid than when he had arrived.

I was so sick. The world calls it crazy, but for those of us who have been there, it was a breakdown long overdue and much deserved. It is just too bad that there was no one to talk to that understood. That is why I asked for the minister. He didn't understand either. Nah, he came from one of those "perfect" church families, a ministerial family. He wouldn't understand.

Well I have rambled on enough. You can forward this to Dale. I would like to talk to him. Lithium does help.

I gather you mean for me to forward this to Dale Brown? Author of "Memories Of A Childhood In The Worldwide Church of God. A True Story" If not, please give me further directions.

So sorry that you suffered at the hands of these "healers" (ministers) in the wcg and its daughters. They should be sued for malpractice.

I hope that life keeps getting better for you and that you can find the freedom from religion that some of us have.

I apologize on behalf of the "ministers" in my area whom I kept well fed and clothed with the payment of my "tithes". I apologize because I know THEY won't. They are still playing the whorish daughter of their motherWCG. They are in the splinter group of UCGiA. I did not see the following "ministers" on your marked/disfellowshipment list:

I apologize for them for taking the Lord's name in vain by calling themselves "ministers of God". I know you said we are marking them in jest, but I'm not laughing. They should be marked for exploiting the children of God, for lying and stealing, for not having the backbone to stand up for what is right.

I asked Franks(in my living room), "If only 10 people would have left Worldwide Church of God to form UCG, would you have left also?" His answer was, "No, because if only 10 people would have left, that would have proved that it was not of God." Never mind heresy. Never mind the lies. Of course, he was a coward from the beginning. He was conveniently out of town when all hell broke loose here in Houston. He needed to make sure there was enough people leaving in order to assure he was going to continue receiving a hefty paycheck.

I don't know why I didn't do this sooner...but I can't think of a better place to be on your disfellowship list than right by my sister, Marcy Schoepko. Please add my name to your list!

Your disfellowship page has really taken off! I've been checking in and waiting for someone to nominate Steve Elliott. I was friends with three women he counseled in one month in 1995 (1996?) on Long Island. All married to the usual abusive, non-supporting, child-molesting types of wcg husbands of which there seems to be no shortage. After each of these women went to him for some desperately needed help with their awful situation, his devastating counsel had the same reaction in each one of them: they thought they'd be better off dead. Thankfully, after talking with each other and finding out their circumstances and counsel were nearly identical, they saw the hateful counsel for what it was and proceeded to ignore it. Much damage was done, but they are all alive.

By the way, Steve Elliott's father was Jack Elliott, organizer of the Spokesman Club. What Steve did for the women in wcg, Jack did for the men.

Just found this site and can't quit reading. I grew up in the Church -- and am thrilled to find I have company!

Who am I? Read the FAQ page and I think that explains it pretty well. Hope you get some benefit from the site.

An interesting letter(Janice's). Having a family member that is bi-polar, I have done a bit of reading on the subject. I highly recommend the book "A Brilliant Madness" by Patty Duke (the actress)to anyone interested in manic depressive illness. Its her story about her struggle with manic depressive illness and provides insights to the treatment of the disorder. A superb book.

As I have said before, its strange how when Abraham heard a voice he was convinced was God, it told him to kill his son. For following the instructions of the voice, he is considered a man of extreme faith to be admired by all Christians. Son of Sam listens and obeys a very similar voice and is reviled by the public. Can anyone explain the difference to me?

I read some of the pages on your website for the first time. I see they're really juiced up with artwork. Very good! My question to you is: do you know of any ex's (or anybody else) that might be interested a project concerning King Solomon's temple? I am working on a manuscript King Solomon's Astonishing Temple Secrets which really and truly lives up to its title. These are secrets which nobody else has ever discovered and are biblically verifiable. Since the ex-WCGers are Old Testament oriented, I thought it might be worth asking. I am open to questions and suggestions if there is any interest.

I might just give you a clue about the secrets: the Temple was built in the hidden form of a man who is a composite of three persons, Adam-Jacob (counted as one), the Levite High Priest, and the Messiah (as a counterpart of King Nebuchadnezzar's metallic image). I believe that while this information is not especially prophetic, it has a relationship to prophecy -- although my manuscript is not about prophecy at all. I think also that the information has ramifications for the Temple Mount and Jews and the building of the third temple. My information is very detailed, no generalties.

Also, if you are the Tony Badillo that wrote that Tithing book, thank you. I did a summary of your book that Mark Tabladillo posted and I also have it on my website. Hopefully it will be helpful to others who want to understand the true Biblical case on tithing.

As far as your project on Solomon's Temple, if you read my Bibliolatry page you will see that I no longer accept the Bible as God's word. Makes it a little hard to get excited about the Temple, Prophesy or anything that is Biblically verifiable. Why don't you just make your own webpage? It isn't that hard and then you would have control over it.

I will post your email address with your message and maybe you will get some response.

You should open your bible and first ask God to help you understand it and then read it.

I don't think you will ever get better advice than this. Upon repentance, God will forgive your sins. Without repentance and forgiveness you will have to give account for evey word you say. There is still time to repent.

What is the one effect that the Worldwide Church of God has had on me that has been more damaging than anything else that they or anyone else have done to me, before or since? This is the question that's been on my mind for a while. I haven't had the capacity to actually determine the answer until now.

What the Worldwide Church of God has taken away from me is the development of normal friendships.

OK, the other shit I could/can deal with. They taught me how to distinguish between truth and lies in a much, much more efficient way than most people can. That's a good thing. I can also point to a chain of events in which the Worldwide Church of God was intimately involved that leads directly to me being where I am now. Worldwide Church of God, for the price of a normal childhood, has brought me to this point in my development. And it's much farther than most people the people who have had a charmed, painless life could ever dream of going. Pain is something of a trial by fire. The pain of my life has refined m to the point where parts of me are sharp. Very sharp.

But the one thing in my life that Worldwide Church of God is directly and unfortunately responsible for is my lack of normal development of friendships. It's not that others haven't tried. It's that I am completely unequipped at this point to handle them.

I had a relationship over the past six months with a woman I respected and still respect but it was not a friendship. It was a romantic involvement that showed signs of developing into a friendship before I cut it short. But I got it backwards. That is always what I do. You know why? Because Worldwide Church of God shattered my trust in any of my fellow human beings.

And, oddly, I feel that I can trace probably all of my recurring depression, agoraphobia, etc., into this particular problem. Because I am and always have been built as a people person. And Worldwide Church of God introduced into this equation a cognitive dissonance the likes of which most people can't even conceive of. What I mean is, take one person who is literally built to be one particular way. Train them to completely suppress this side of them. Is it any wonder at "all" that a person like that would see no reason to live? Take away a person's inbred purpose in life and they are left with... guess. No purpose. So I spend my time reaching out to people in the only way I know how while being careful to never let them get too close. It's not working. It never has worked. And all the antidepressants did was dull the edge to the point where I could put on the appearance of developing normally. But, you see, that did absolutely NOT solve the problem. Because dulling someone to the point where they appear to develop normally is "absolutely not the same" as fixing the issues that led to the problem in the first place.

So... thanks and no thanks, Worldwide Church of God. Worldwide Church of God has, in their very odd way, prepared me to be the person I am today. Which is both a very good and a very bad thing. You see, cults like that they have one major flaw. You cannot hold all people down all of the time. And the people that escape, while scarred and hurt and all that good stuff... are changed in a way that makes them the biggest "problem" a cult like that could ever face.

Isn't it amazing the way nature checks and balances itself that way? How many people have we as a group, and Ed and Mark, etc with their web pages, and all the stories we have had to tell, "kept away" from that cult? How much influence have we all had on the continuing breakdown of that cult? I'd have to say probably a lot more than we even realize ourselves. The cult leaders are, at this point, holding on to a tenuous thread of "leadership" that is rapidly being eaten away by the likes of us and all the other forces that are fraying it and exposing them for who and "what" they really are. And we would never be reacting this way, at "all", if it hadn't been for our experiences in the cult to begin with.

So, what I'm saying is this: Yes, I'm a hurting individual. And I have a lot of issues that I have to deal with. I realize that now. But I have been equipped in a relatively "unique" way, by the very organization I am now helping to destroy, to show people the utter folly of the institutions that would hold people into them.

That's my legacy. That's your legacy. And Worldwide Church of God's legacy, although it could be measured in one sense by the number of dollars I've had to sink into medication and therapy, is actually measured by the number of people out there who are equipped to chip away at the already tenuous belief system until there is nothing of it left.

Is it any wonder this world seems "godless" to these people? Maybe it isn't godless. I'm prepared to admit that. In fact, I fervently hope it is so. I have this conception of what a perfect being is, and although it is absolutely "nothing" like most cults and religions think it is, I would have to say that I really really want there to be a being up there that understand everything I am going through.

Religion, believe it or not, although perhaps very slowly, is dying. And the ironic thing is, it killed itself. It killed itself because it tried to kill the people who joined them. And people just aren't killed that easily.

Herbert Arm -"strong" said once , a deceived person doesn't know he's deceived . I was involved with the church 1969 ( starting reading the plain truth ) until 1992 . As I look back , I was never able to grow in straight and faith as a person should in seeking God's will . It seemed I was becoming more of a wimp then a man . I believe Mrs. Armstrong was head of the church , not Herbert !! She wore the pants in their "marriage".

Behind every "successful" man is a women , as the saying goes , but whose behind the woman ??? Leadership in a family must come from the man . When Adam failed this God given order , he gave it all up to Mama Eve ... and with the dark force behind her ( not all women , but most ) to this day , from the garden of eden . Herbert and Garner Ted were not men inside , they knew it !! .... the pain , hate and guilt which caused their terrible lust problems .( pride and ego )

A deceived person doesn't know he's deceived ? I was in the worldwide church of ????

Regarding women and the Bible, see my new page: Men, Women, And Gods
By Helen H. Gardner .

I would like to take this opportunity to say that part of the ministry of the body of christ is to expose sin on every hand. However, haven read several of your homepages concerning the Late Herbert Armstrong, I must say that as I read them, I get that sense that your research is more than the exposing of sin and false prophets but this seems to be a personal issue. Please enlighten me on yoyr ministry "The Wacthman." Sure when one claims to have been sent by God in these last and evil days to exhort on the teachings of Jesus Christ and it turns out that the ministry that they were really promoting is one of self, I too am angered but I am also moved with compassion. The compassion that Jesus had for those who without knowing who he really was choose to persecute him. Jesus' words on the cross was "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I guess that all I am trying to say is I admire the work that you have done and is still doing for the upbuilding of God's kingdom. Just do it with a little more compassion. Were we not all born in sin and shaped in inquity. Prayer, along with the word of God is our greatest weapon in defeating the enemy. Let us continue in the apostle's doctrine by praying ye for one another. God be praised!!

Your contributions to this page are more than welcome. If you don't appear to give me permission, I will not publish your full name.
(But if you attack me and make threats, then you go on the "Hate Mail" page and I will publish your name and email address.)

Do not duplicate, copy or redistribute in any form without the prior written consent.

Disclaimer