Worldwide Church of God: Email To The Editor, Page 33

Email To The Editor
(Page 33)
(Mail from Kooks, Nuts and Loonies is on another page)

2/26/00

You XCG Contras really bore me to death, since it was Joseph Tkach SR. against Armstrong & Tkach Junior who had a great legacy in G*d stored for the future.

Yet you whine and do not take personal responsibility for your own life in social context.

There is to be a successor Of Joseph Tkach SR. to revive the Pasadena Campus HQ without XCG/ACU and there are no rebels with no cause.

If you are with G*d, then you shall obtain it.

Oliver Bach
flypaper@sternpost.de
TimeWarpProfit@bigfoot.de

PRIVATE, PRIVATE, PRIVATE

REPLY

Ollie, When you attack The PT, it doesn't matter if you mark it private.

If the site and its contributors bore you so much, don't waste your time reading the pages and writing me.

Editor

Hi there Editor.

The new "expense postings" are accompanied by a hilarious graphic that actually resembles some of the ministers.

Aside from any laughs we may be able to squeeze out of the expense article, it is extremely difficult not to get exceedingly angry combing through those purchases. I see pieces of people's lives in those figures. There are the non-existent homes and cars, retirement savings, college educations, clothing, food, rent, and basic daily needs that went unsatisfied as the naive Worldwide Church of God members suffered. It is truly hard to swallow all this when it is displayed in a format that juxtaposes the extravagant lifestyle of HWA to the realities in our own minds about what our own checkbook registers (or our parents' registers) looked like in '75 or '76.

Thanks for doing the exposing. But it really hurts.

Best,

Sharon

Can we please use last names....you know to take responsibility and stuff like that.

Charlie (last name withheld as a service to Charlie)

REPLY

Sorry Charlie, this website did that, indeed, required it when accusations were made against named individuals, for three years. We have just gotten too many death threats from loving Christians who cannot stand the truth. Enough people have died already because of this cult.

The previous operator of The Painful Truth has advised me to never use my name, and this is the advice that I will pass on to whoever takes over the operation from me.

The Editor has the names of the individuals that make accusations against the ministry on this website. We are ready if anyone wants to legally protest. If you don't want to believe the people that post to the site, feel free to not do that. Plus, you may prove that anything is untrue and it will be removed.

And Charlie, I notice that you did not put your even your first name at the end of your message. I got your full name from your header.

Regards,
Editor

Hello Ed,

It greatly saddens me that you have received death threats! I'll be sad to see you leave this web site. You must need a break from all this. I can't imagine what it must be like to keep this up for so long, even though it has many pleasures. You deserve a break and I'm glad there is someone who is willing to take your place.

I love you and your wife too, for she must have feelings too about all this.

When will you leave? I still hate to see you go! You are loved by many. I wish the very best to you and your whole family.

Your friend, Nina

REPLY

Nina, Thank you for your message. Ed told me to tell you that he appreciates your concern.

The threats to his life did not drive him from The Painful Truth. It was his concern that some innocent person in his family or in some other family that may have the same name may pay the price for what he was doing.

Being a gun collector and a very good marksman, Ed said his motto was "In Glock I trust." Glock being a gun manufacturer. Unfortunately, Glock does not watch over everyone and Ed couldn't be everywhere. Ed came to the point where he reasoned that, "if there is a God, he can't be any more interested in me than in any other person in this world," seeing himself as not very special, "and God is letting many people die for many unjust and evil reasons, and has down through the centuries, by the millions." So Ed could no longer trust such a God to protect himself or his loved ones or other innocents. Thus the removal of any last names from the site.

Ed had made it a requirement that names had to be used when posting messages where minister's were mentioned and never had any qualms about using his own name, knowing that this would bring a little more credibility to the site. Now, if people want to make accusations against the ministry, they must provide the Editor with their full names, but these names will not be published.

Ed has said that he feels that we are "soul mates" and very likeminded. The Website will remain virtually the same. The FAQ will remain, with all of Ed's views on life, since we only differ slightly, and it was one of his requirements that nothing change in regards to the look, feel and attitude of the site. The address may change eventually but I would hate to have to go through all the problems of getting listed in search engines for another address. For the time being, the address will remain the same. I will endeavor to try to find the same great graphics that have been on the site in the past, and where I can't, Ed has said that he will help me. Ed has said that he may also submit articles in the future, if he comes up with anything that may be of interest. Right now, he is taking a well deserved rest and will be doing a lot of reading.

Hopefully you will not see a big difference in The PT, but if you do, I hope it will be for the better.

The Editor

3/2/00

Hi Louise,

After my 1st email time this morning, I went back later to see the up-dates on Ed's site. I saw the additional article on the brainwashing /mind control you sent in. I am glad you added that to our perspective since I know you have been gathering so much info since we met years ago. So much of your info. got me started on my Cult research back in 1993-4. As you said, no one takes the time to go back and see what it was all about. I think it takes getting past the initial shock and emptiness , then to find a support group to help us through the process.

What we ALL are doing on Ed's site is wonderfully beneficial to all the variety of readers. We can reach so many different people on many different levels all due to our different perspectives, views, and experiences. And all of our different writing styles as well as our ability to comfort and understand what others are going through. I marvel at how this is all working. I know from others who check in and see our names, that we are having an impact on opening the doors for our former friends who still attend. Yes, I believe even many ministers are reading our stuff. (To their embarrassment hope). Thanks for your feedback and comments. It helps to know that we are touching the lives of others in a positive way.

Have a good week, Joanne

Ed,

Glad to hear there's more Worldwide Church of God Expenses on the way. I've never seen this information, and I'm quite certain others haven't either. Documentation that reveals what these bastards did with our hard-earned money is so important -as you say, you never can tell how any of your readers will filter the information, so all of the information is important to somebody, sometime when they're ready.

As for you, friend...I know I cannot even pretend to imagine how much personal freedom you give up to maintain and update this site. The time you have spent, and continue to devote to the presentation of this material is a huge contribution to others. But the contribution you make is more than just the time...the emotional energy involved has to be pretty draining, certainly distracting from things you might rather pursue. I can't imagine how sick of it you must get sometimes. So please know I am very thankful and appreciative of your commitment and sacrifice.

Janey

My Dear Ed:

I have not written you for more than 18 months because so much overwhelmingly good, I'm glad to say, has been going on in my and my family's life. But I felt I needed to write seeing you were leaving the Painful Truth site and taking a well-earned rest. The help you have given thousands probably scores of thousands of people is incalculable, along with your admirable colleagues like Alex James, John O, Sharon, Louise and so many others. We have never met, but your integrity and passionate honesty shone forth so much from everything you wrote, I have still always instinctively felt of you as a close friend. It is clear this must be a common feeling among so many of us who saw the fraudulent shit we had given our lives to exposed so splendidly and relentlessly on your site.

Of course they sent you death threats. of course they hate you. I am reminded of a saying by George Santayana, loosely paraphrased. "It is not injustice that is intolerable to people. It is justice." And that is why they whine and threaten and come up with the sanctimonious, self-righteous accusations so uniquely typical of Herbert's Worldwiders and their endless permutations. Worst of all, you expose their lies, you expose their self-righteousness.

Interesting, all those cowardly hired gun hypocrites sneering to you and your contributors "Get a life." They hated you because you and we all had. And they hadn't.

I love irony as I grow older. And I love the irony that you have actually been doing what Herbert the Daughter-Raper endlessly conned us into believing he was doing. You have been doing a work that transformed for the better the lives of thousands and scores of thousands of deceived and impoverished people. Your "Work" lifted them from ignorance and poverty and madness. It turned them to reconcile with their parents and children and relatives. It put them on the road to peace and happiness. And you never asked anyone a dime for it. No wonder the foul mad parasites hate you. You exposed them as the counterfeit they are. If that's not cause for their "Loving Christian" motives of fundamentalism and murder, what is?

Personally, as someone who is not Thank God! a Christian any more, I would not for a second slander the Orthodox, Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches by putting them in the same category as Herbert's uniquely foul concoctions and their offspring.

As to the remaining true believers, the old New Testament clich,s seem to fit very well here. You have "given them a true witness." And therefore of course they hate to be exposed to the truth and see all their own cowardice, hypocrisy and vileness exposed. Personally, I believe that if you practiced lovingkindess, turning the other cheek and forgiveness towards the remaining True Believer, they'd tear you limb from limb. Arming yourself with some Glocks (excellent discerning choice by the way. Are we talking 9mm automatics?) and honing your marksmanship is definitely the way to go. I don't think any of them will ever have the balls to do anything except threaten from anonymity. Herbert's diarrhea-inducing extreme cowardice was pervasive among his followers. It was as contagious as his clinically insane and blasphemous narcissism. As Churchill said of the (pre-1945) Germans "Son of Herbert" ministers and true believers are capable of only two responses. "They are either at your feet or at your throat."

Please feel free to post publicly everything above this sentence, identifying me as, again, "The Watcher" while keeping my E-mail and identity confidential. I wasted two decades of courage, sacrifice and integrity on those shits and they are not worth a second more of inconvenience.

The Watcher

Dear Ed and the new editor of the P.T.,

Just a note of continued thanks for all your blood sweat and tears that have gone into this Legacy. Some, no, many of us share your sorrow at turning over the storehouse of information to another. It must feel like letting go of a "baby". Yet I believe it was time, and you made the best choice. I support the effort of whomever is continuing the enormous task and am happy there is someone willing to do it. Honestly, I hope it goes on forever. This TRUTH must be available for anyone seeking the truth of any Cult or Religion. People need to come out of the darkness and find a healthier life. And in the meantime have a place to come to heal.

Now Ed:

I hope you have a little more free time, and we can continue our talks and share family time as "normal" people. :-). I look forward to our ongoing search for understanding and enlightenment and especially your insight to so many things. I have been searching the Free Thought site on the www.infidels.com and want to read all I can on Robert G. Ingersoll's books, letters, debates and ideas. What a great man of the times. It was you who put his works on the site for me to find. Thank you so much for that wealth of knowledge. I hope many others find it and read the wisdom there.

To the new Editor I say:

Thanks for taking on this Legacy and hope it continues to be a source of enrichment to the readers and help the wounded among us. I once told Ed, WE are the WOUNDED HEALERS. We are here not only for the readers, but for each other. May the task not overwhelm you, but strengthen you.

My best as we all move ahead together,

Joanne

The Painful Truth Site has just undergone a transition, and I would like to send my best to the new editor as well as offer any support that may deemed appropriate.

The site index seems to have been deleted. Is there any thought to bringing it back? It has been quite useful in the past.

Douglas

REPLY

Douglas,

The new editor thanks you for your support. Hope you will continue with your interesting article submissions.

I have checked the site index and do not see anything wrong with it. I think you do have to have Java enabled on your browser to be able to see it. If anyone else has this problem, please let me know.

Editor

REPLY

The page index works well but there appears to be no search capability for words or phrases--perhaps I missed it.

Please understand, I don't mind being on a list of those who are fellowshipped at http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/disfellowship.htm but it seems to me an inconsistency that the PT site would leave off last names while the herbert(notso)Warmstrong site would retain them. It may be that you might want to consider a modification. I don't mind getting threats, I've gotten a few, but others may not be so anxious to be on the hate mail list.

Best regards

Douglas

REPLY

Douglas,

I'm afraid you will have to take that up with The Caretaker at the herbertwarmstrong.com site. There is no connection between the sites other than the links.

The Editor

I am looking for a church and considered the World Wide Church of God based on the doctrine about after death/before Judgment. After reading your Q&A's I am very nervous. Now I'm not sure which "church" to attend and greatly feel the need for fellowship. Can you help with some guidance.

Cindy

REPLY

Cindy,

I understand your need for fellowship. Plus there is that well used bible verse about not forsaking the assembling... blah... blah... blah.

You have to realize that you can "fellowship," in other words, have friends without being associated with a church. And these friends, outside of a church, will stick with you a lot tighter than your friends in a church. As soon as you do not believe as the church dictates, they will drop you like a hot potato.

When you join a church, you are joining a mindset, a belief, a faith. Yes, it is like joining a ready made family, but you better believe what all the other members of the family believe. You become a mindless drone.

You also have to understand that all these doctrines on death, afterlife, judgment are all each religion's or church's own beliefs. They have absolutely no proof at all that they are right.

The Christian church uses their bible as the foundation of what it believes yet there is no proof whatsoever that God had anything to do with that book, in fact, the proof is that any God worth worshipping would disassociate himself altogether from the book. The Catholics, at least, say that, where the Bible and their traditions differ, they go with their traditions. They admit that they don't even need the Bible.

All these religions are just "made up." They are fakes and frauds used to mislead and control people who are afraid of death. See the Bibliolatry Page and, if nothing else, read The Age of Reason.

If you want to be with people, join the YMCA, volunteer at a nursing home or hospital or some other helpful area. Churches are such a waste of time, money and energy.

There are a lot of really nice people in this world, make friends and fellowship with them outside of a church, you'll be so much more better off in the long run.

Good luck,

The Editor

I have no doubt that HWA was, as I addressed to Mark Tabladillo, a wool-clad wolf, and a megalomaniacal, incestuous pervert. The reference to Dorothy relates to my recollection of his first child's name.

My questions:

(1) Has she ever affirmed the accusations publicly or reliably from a legal point of view, i.e. provably?

(2) Are the credible records of payment for her silence or payments that could be reasonably ascribed for her silence? Indeed, has she been silent?

Thanks.

Wayne, an 18-year Armstrong victim ending in 1980. I didn't end. The victimization ended. Naturally, the local minister, Jeff McGown consigned me to the lake of fire, so maybe I ended. You'd have to ask him.

REPLY

Answers as far as I know:

1. No. Also, never publicly denied them either.

2. Don't know.

If only some of the insiders WHO KNOW, would tell the TRUTH......... But they are more interested in MONEY!

Editor

Editor, PT

Many thanks to Ed for his hard work, patience, and contributions to the PT site. This is one forum where ex-WCGers and others affected by the Worldwide Church of God syndrome can air out their feelings and find people who went through similar experiences. Hopefully we are a little wiser now.

Good luck to the new editor.

Regards

Ben

Hi Ed:

I used to belong to the Worldwide Church of God and then the PCG. There is a lot that burns my but with the so called leaders. They continually cry out love, love, love but when there is a genuine need they tell you to handle it.

I was suspended for telling the truth. They even tried to turn my wife against me. Now if that is the love of God I do not want anything to do with it. Never did a minister come to visit me until I stopped tithing. Then all of a sudden two of them were on my door step. I was told by these ministers that not tithing was a big sin. I asked them to show me were it says that in the bible and they could not. In a matter of fact they didn't even bring there bibles with them. So much for a bible believing church.

These people break up families and say it is God's will. When in truth family is the most important aspects of life. they even turned two of my sisters and brother in law against me. They don't even speak to me any more.

God says he will leave the 99 and go after the one, but all the COG go after the 99 because there is more money in that. These men are really misguided and if they are not misguided then they are robbers. I could go on and on but I won't.

I am glad that I am freeeeee to use my own mind now. My Wife, children and myself are much happier now and we have money in the bank for the first time in 15 years. My business has been growing and we are looking into a house.

I still have a lot to sweep out of my mind still but in time it will come about.

With Thanks,

Rick

PS. These COGs always say prove all things. How can one man in his life time PROVE ALL THINGS. That is their own translation for that scripture of 1Thess.5:21 it tells us to examine not prove, and to hold fast to what is good.

Family is good!

REPLY

Rick,

Good to hear that you have finally escaped Fear Religion. And that includes ALL religion. Keep reading and learning. Never think that you have the Truth and don't have to search anymore. Yes, life is much better when you are not paying for a cushy lifestyle for self-appointed representatives of God.

Editor

Hey there,

Wondering if there is a list of the large churches (cults)that broke away from the Worldwide Church of God. I would like to look them up in the Portland, Oregon area and see how misleading they are! Any web links, or addresses would be helpful.

Thanks Neal

REPLY

Neal,

Below I have placed something that someone sent to the PT that may be helpful to you.

Also you can check out: http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/splits.htm

The Editor

______________________________________

Worldwide Church of God Organizational Splits

1933 Radio Church of God (Herbert W. Armstrong)

1950 Worldwide Church of God

1986 (Joseph W. Tkach)

1995 (Joseph Tkach)

      Church of God (Carl O'Beirn) 1966

     Top of the Line (John Kerly)

     Restoration Church of God (M. John Allen)

     Church of God Boise Idaho (B. Ballew & V. Cryer)

     Sabbatarian (Marvin Faulhaber)

     Fountain of Life Fellowship (James and Virginia Porter) 1970

     Restoration Fellowship (Sir Anthony Buzzard) 1972

     The Total Truth (Lee Grose) 1972

     Church of God Seventh Era (Larry Gilbert Johnson) 1973

     Church of God Shreveport (John Mitchell) 1973

     Baltimore Church of God (Dan Porter) 1974

     Great Lakes Society for Biblical Research (John Cheetham) 1974

     Foundation for Biblical Research (E. Martin, G. Arvidson & K. Fisher)

1974

          Association for Scriptural Knowledge (E. Martin) 1984

               Original Bible Project (E. Martin, J. Tabor & R. Kuhn) 1992

               The Association for Biblical Christians (Dallas James) 1992

          World Insight (G. Arvidson & K. Storey) 1979

     Associated Churches, INC (Ken Westby & George Kemnitz) 1974

          United Church of God (Richard Wiedenheft) 1978

          Family of God (John Shirn) 1983

     Church of God Eternal (Raymond Cole) 1975

          Church of God Sonoma (Paul Royer) 1976

          Giving and Sharing Ministry (Richard Nickel) 1978

          Bible Study Association (Davis Northnagel) 1980

     Universal Church of God (Ray Lampley) 1975

     Emissary Publications (Des Griffen) 1975

     Religion in the News (William Hinson) 1975

     Liberty Foundation (Al Carrozzo) 1975

     Seek and Find Ministries of the Church of El Shaddai (Ray Stapleton)

1976

     Church of God Churchlight Publishing Association (Jack Hines) 1978

     Family Church of God (Rick Gipe) 1978

     Mystery of the Kingdom Ministry (Martin Muzynoski) 1978

     Church of God International (Garner Ted Armstrong) 1978

          Assembly of God in Christ Jesus (Bill Phillips)

          Disciples Church of God (Clyde Holman)

          Church of the Savior at Cincinnati (Cliff Robertson)

          The Pure Truth (Richard Scott) 1979

          Church of God Evangelical Association (Dave Smith) 1980

               Church of God Oklahoma (John Tresscott) 1986

          Church of God Denton Congregation (Austin Newell) 1985

               Sabbatarian Christian Fellowship (P. Frick & V. Lyle) 1992

          United Biblical Church of God (C. Patton & C. Kimbrough) 1987

          Church of God of Jessamine (Doug Young) 1988

          The Berean Church of God (Clarence Lucas) 1989

          Evangelical Church of Christ (G. Russel & C. Foland) 1989

          Cornerstone Publications (James Rector) 1990

          Alpha & Omega Christian Foundation (Grigore Sbarcea) 1990

          Euclid Bible Publications (Gary Jordal) 1990

          Family Church of God (Bill Young) 1991

          Community Church of God (Thad Miller) 1992

          Congregation of God Seventh Day Association (John Pinkston) 1992

          Talent Ministries (Ted Phillips) 1992

          Church of God Fellowship (Paul Bell) 1993

          The Fellowship Church of God (Les Pope) 1993

          Unity Christian Fellowship (Paul Haney) 1995

          Christian Educational Ministries (Ron Dart & Larry Watkins) 1995

     Church of God Messengers (Gordon Weisler) 1979

     United Church of God (Richard Prince) 1979

     Christian Church of God (Neville Gilbert) 1979

     Biblical Church of God (Fred Coulter) 1979

          Scriptural Church of God (Keith Hunt) 1981

          Christian Biblical Church of God (Fred Coulter) 1982

     Christian Church of God (Jeff Booth) 1980

     Church of God Within (Tony Badillo) 1980

     The House of YAHWEH (Yisrael Hawkins) 1980

     Dallas Congregation of the Almighty (Herb Solinsky) 1981

     Church of God Kelowna (Hans Norel)

     Transworld Publishing (Bernard Kelly) 1983

     Universal Church of God (Harold Hemenway) 1985

     Church of God Philadelphian Era (Martin Fillepello) 1987

     Triumph Prophetic Ministries (William Dankenbring) 1987

          Patriots of the Kingdom (Myron Martin) 1995

     Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry) 1989

          The Scattered Brethren (Lawrence Maayeh)

     Twentieth Century Church of God (C. Ken Rockwell) 1990

     Church of God of the Firstfruits (Frank Hassinger) 1991

     Church of God Philadelphia Era (David Fraser) 1991

     Church of the Great God (John Ritenbaugh) 1991

          Church of God in Truth (J. Russell & D. Baker) 1993

     The Everlasting Church of God (Robert Collins) 1991

     Global Church of God (Rod Meredith & Raymond McNair) 1992

          Church of God (Allen Cain) 1994

          Pathway (Malcolm Crawford) 1994

     Bible Education Services (Don Hudgel) 1992

     Midnight Ministries (Malcom Heap) 1992

     Commonwealth Publishing (K. Gearhart & D. Conder) 1993

     Church of God in the Netherlands - New Moon Seventh Day (B. Otten & B. Rook) 1993

     Reformed and Reorganized Worldwide Church of God (Don Gerlach) 1993

     United Church of God (David Hulme, Denny Luker, Vic Kubik & Ray Wooten)

1995

          United Church of God, Birmingham (Ray Wooten) 1995

          Orlando Church of God (Rob Elliott) 1995

          New Mexico Regional Church of God (Lon Lacey) 1996

     Christ's Church of Grace (Earl Williams) 1995

     Friends of the Brethren (Norm Edwards) 1995

     Worldwide Church of God Texas (C. Crow, W. Crow & H. Caudle) 1995

     Barnabas Ministries (Alan Ruth) 1996

Compiled from Publications Authored by Alan Ruth, Robert Coulter, Richard

Nickels and Joel Bjorling

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